Agenda and minutes

County Councillor Alyson Barnes was replaced by County Councillor Darren Clifford and County Councillor Richard Newman-Thompson was replaced by County Councillor Chris Henig for this meeting.

Apologies were received from County Councillor David Watts

Members are asked to consider any Pecuniary and Non-Pecuniary Interests they may have to disclose to the meeting in relation to matters under consideration on the Agenda.

None were disclosed.

The minutes of the meeting held on 16 October 2015 were agreed to be an accurate record.

The Chair introduced Jason Homan, Assistant Director of Property (Building Design & Construction) to the meeting who delivered the Task Group's report.

It was explained that the Task Group was convened following a request from the Cabinet Member for Children and Young People to consider the installation of further fire suppression measures in all new schools in Lancashire. It was elucidated that the Task Group used a report to the All-Parliamentary Discussion Group presented in 2013, and that this report had been provided as an appendix.

The issues analysed by the Task Group were outlined to be; financial aspects, community impacts, technical issues and the thoughts of the Fire and Rescue Service. The aforementioned were considered in the formulation of recommendations.

Jason Homan stated that Government developed a risk assessment tool for fire safety within schools, and the County Council had built upon this by incorporating further assessments to analyse specific issues within Lancashire.

It was emphasised to the Committee that fire suppression focussed upon mitigating psychological impacts of fires within schools, rather than specifically saving lives as other measures sought to ensure pupil safety.

The Committee were informed that the Task Group had given consideration to existing schools within the county as the proportion of new schools to be built was anticipated to be low in number in the coming years, with schools more likely to have building extensions within their existing grounds. Therefore, the Task Group suggested that particular criteria be developed to determine thresholds for size expansions that triggered the requirement to install sprinkler systems.

Regarding schools within Lancashire that the county council did not control, it was stressed to be of importance that measures the county council considered appropriate for their own schools should be encouraged in schools not under the county council's control.

Members noted that the Task Group analysed alternative forms of fire suppression, for example misting systems. It was explained that fire safety was determined by various factors, for example; the layout of a school, direct access to outside from classrooms, the fire properties of building materials, limiting roof voids and the space above ceilings. Therefore, it was conveyed that the installation of a sprinkler system was not the only measure that could be implemented to suppress fire.

The Task Group, it was conveyed, also considered schools that currently had sprinkler systems installed and, specifically, the extent the systems were examined, inspected and maintained as there had been issues with sprinkler systems deploying, however it was highlighted this was due to poor maintenance rather that system failure. Furthermore, the issue of unanticipated sprinkler system triggering was discussed with the Task Group, and it was explained that sprinklers only triggered in the area of a fire/heat source which was contrary to common misconceptions.

Discussions within the Task Group had taken place around who was responsible for sprinkler systems, e.g. with the county council or with individual schools.

Finally, in the instances that it was not felt appropriate for sprinkler systems to be installed, discussions taken  ...  view the full minutes text for item 4.

The Chair introduced Jane Booth (Independent Chair Lancashire Safeguarding Children Board), Paul Hegarty (Business Manager of Lancashire Safeguarding Children and Adult Board) and Louise Taylor (Corporate Director, Operations and Delivery) to the meeting who delivered the Lancashire Safeguarding Children Board (LCSB) report.

The Committee were informed that LSCB considered the county council to be a key player in safeguarding children and therefore, the report was before the Committee. It was noted that a shorter more accessible version of the report would be available on the LSCB website in the near future.

Members were informed that, following their audit and inspection, the LSCB had identified some areas of concern regarding the experiences of some children and young people and that these had been presented on page 4 of the report.

Jane Booth noted that, despite some concerns, there were many positives. For example, a significant increase in early-help activity. It was elucidated that the increase was mirrored by a decrease in children on child protection plans and therefore there may be a connection between the two, although the connection would not be confirmed without further analysis. It was explained to the Committee that there had not been a similar impact upon the number of looked-after children and the referrals received, however with the increase in early-help activity there could be movement on this position going forward.

It was explained that a supplementary document would be produced over the coming months which focussed upon data-analysis and that this would be shared with the Scrutiny Committee.

It was conveyed that the childcare structure was particularly complex in Lancashire due to a large number of Clinical Commissioning Groups, 12 District Councils, a number of health care providers, a mixed picture of poverty/deprivation and a large cohort of schools.

The Committee were informed that LSCB reviewed all child deaths and, through their work, there had been issues identified that required work with agencies.

Members noted that LSCB had completed two inspections, one around early-help and one locality inspection in Burnley, along with a number of individual case audits. It was also conveyed that LSCB had improved data collection and consequently performance analysis across agencies, and work was ongoing to increase capacity.

Jane Booth highlighted that a decision had been made to align the business units that supported the LSCB and Lancashire Safeguarding Adults Board (LSAB) as many issues span across the age bands, and through aligning business, the service could be more effective.

Members were invited to ask questions and to raise any comments in relation to the report, a summary of which is provided below:

CC D O'Toole queried the differentiation in funding to LSCB from local authorities, for example Blackpool Council. Jane Booth explained that there were separate LSCB's for each of Lancashire, Blackburn with Darwen and Blackpool.  Some core functions such as the development of policies and procedures were shared and a joint Child Death Overview Panel was in place to which the other LSCB's made financial a contribution. It was noted  ...  view the full minutes text for item 5.

The Chair explained that the letters provided had been shared with the Committee to give the opportunity to note the result of the Notice of Motion which was approved at Full Council.

Resolved; That the Committee notes the letters sent to Government and the CEO of NHS England.

Resolved; That the work plan and task group update be noted.

An item of urgent business may only be considered under this heading where, by reason of special circumstances to be recorded in the Minutes, the Chair of the meeting is of the opinion that the item should be considered at the meeting as a matter of urgency. Wherever possible, the Chief Executive should be given advance warning of any Member's intention to raise a matter under this heading.

The Chair introduced Wendy Broadley (Scrutiny Officer) who attended to request approval from the Committee for a Task Group to be convened to explore the shortage of nurses within the NHS system.

It was explained to the Committee that Health Scrutiny Committee liaised with Acute Trust providers in Lancashire and a common theme from discussions was a shortage of Doctors and Nurses, and therefore Trusts had a heavy reliance of agency staff and nurses from overseas. It was conveyed that members of Health Scrutiny Committee wanted a better understanding of the reason behind the shortages and therefore the Task Group request had been devised.

CC D Clifford stated that the Task Group should consider the work of Community Nurses when assessing nursing levels of Acute Trusts. Wendy Broadley explained that the Task Group would be endeavouring to receive as a wide a picture as possible around these issues. For example, Health Steering Group would be meeting with Chorley & South Ribble CCG around their workforce planning project and the information from this meeting would be fed into the Task Group to aid their work.

CC M Parkinson noted that nursing, previously, had been a vocation, however this had changed in recent times with the requirement for qualifications and therefore could be a contributing factor.

CC C Henig suggested that nurses could be consulted by the Task Group. Wendy Broadley stated that it would be useful to speak to nurses.

CC G Wilkins asked that the Task Group investigate if the NHS required non-EU nurses to fill quotas.

CC D O'Toole suggested that the Task Group investigate the level of training nurses received and attitudinal issues.

CC C Crompton stated that an issue was nurses seeking employment via agencies rather than direct employment and suggested that the Task Group analyse this. Wendy Broadley stated that this was an area the Task Group would be endeavouring to understand.

Resolved: That the Committee support the Task Group request.

The next meeting of the Scrutiny Committee will be held on 11 December 2015 at 10:00am at the County Hall, Preston.

The next meeting of the Scrutiny Committee will be held on Friday, 11 December, 2015, at 10:00am at the County Hall, Preston in Cabinet Room 'B'.